Tonight the debate is at Belmont University. Obama versus McCain. Debate 2008 #2 begins, town hall style.
While I am not a huge fan of politics, I have posted a few political things lately and you guys and gals have commented away and even better, everything has been kept under control. I appreciate that. So here is another one of those political posts for your thoughts.
What are your thoughts on tonight’s debate? Take a second and leave a comment.
[quote comment="42520"][quote comment="42508"]If all I want is agreement with my opinions I might as well talk to the mirror. IMO.[/quote]
I’ve argued with myself & lost.[/quote]
Another Saturday Night and I aint got nobody?
[quote comment="42508"]If all I want is agreement with my opinions I might as well talk to the mirror. IMO.[/quote]
I’ve argued with myself & lost.
[quote comment="42508"] If all I want is agreement with my opinions I might as well talk to the mirror. IMO.[/quote]
Teehee, how did you know I talk to myself in the mirror every morning, Random?! IMO, I am all that I say I am! :lol: You know we’re being silly.
Of course you are invited Joyce,,,it will be a girls night :silly:
[quote comment="42488"][quote comment="42354"][quote comment="42333"]At this point everyone knows who they are going to vote for, despite the mud slinging and name calling (last ditch efforts). Let’s just vote and be done with it. :blink:[/quote]
8-10% are undecided. Events can overtake the election yet people are already voting. Election Day is 11/4. Until then attention must be paid. (Sorry, off my soap box now)[/quote]
See this is why I usually won’t get involved with any political debates, talks, forums. etc. if you state your opinion it just gets used for someone else’s fodder or give them the opportunity to jump on that “soap box”….I guess I should have said IMO. Or followed my own advise and said nothing in this political post.
PS I know when day Election Day is, and the importance of paying attention during this election. IMO[/quote]
Clearly it was/is your opinion. Just as mine was my opinion. Glad I was able to amuse you all.
If we can’t state opinions on a blog, or express our personalities or have civil disagreements and discussions , what exactly is the point? If all I want is agreement with my opinions I might as well talk to the mirror. IMO.
[quote comment="42500"][quote comment="42494"][quote comment="42492"][quote comment="42489"]
Almost every time I comment I want to start it with, IMO. I completely understand![/quote]
IMO Thanks Angie[/quote]
IMO, you guys are the best. *group hug* How about yall come over next Friday night for a girls’ night and we’ll eat, drink and dish, hmm? IMO, it will be a blast, heehee.[/quote]
Can I come? Sounds like a splendid idea to me![/quote]
IMO, it IS a splendid idea! Hurry on over!
[quote comment="42494"][quote comment="42492"][quote comment="42489"]
Almost every time I comment I want to start it with, IMO. I completely understand![/quote]
IMO Thanks Angie[/quote]
IMO, you guys are the best. *group hug* How about yall come over next Friday night for a girls’ night and we’ll eat, drink and dish, hmm? IMO, it will be a blast, heehee.[/quote]
Can I come? Sounds like a splendid idea to me!
IMO I think you are right :silly: hehehe
[quote comment="42494"][quote comment="42492"][quote comment="42489"]
Almost every time I comment I want to start it with, IMO. I completely understand![/quote]
IMO Thanks Angie[/quote]
IMO, you guys are the best. *group hug* How about yall come over next Friday night for a girls’ night and we’ll eat, drink and dish, hmm? IMO, it will be a blast, heehee.[/quote]
IMO, I wish we could really do that!
(uh oh…I predict this will get out of hand. IMO…)
hee hee
[quote comment="42492"][quote comment="42489"]
Almost every time I comment I want to start it with, IMO. I completely understand![/quote]
IMO Thanks Angie[/quote]
IMO, you guys are the best. *group hug* How about yall come over next Friday night for a girls’ night and we’ll eat, drink and dish, hmm? IMO, it will be a blast, heehee.
[quote comment="42489"]
Almost every time I comment I want to start it with, IMO. I completely understand![/quote]
IMO Thanks Angie
[quote comment="42488"][quote comment="42354"][quote comment="42333"]At this point everyone knows who they are going to vote for, despite the mud slinging and name calling (last ditch efforts). Let’s just vote and be done with it. :blink:[/quote]
8-10% are undecided. Events can overtake the election yet people are already voting. Election Day is 11/4. Until then attention must be paid. (Sorry, off my soap box now)[/quote]
See this is why I usually won’t get involved with any political debates, talks, forums. etc. if you state your opinion it just gets used for someone else’s fodder or give them the opportunity to jump on that “soap box”….I guess I should have said IMO. Or followed my own advise and said nothing in this political post.
PS I know when Election Day is, and the importance of paying attention during this election. IMO[/quote]
Almost every time I comment I want to start it with, IMO. I completely understand!
[quote comment="42354"][quote comment="42333"]At this point everyone knows who they are going to vote for, despite the mud slinging and name calling (last ditch efforts). Let’s just vote and be done with it. :blink:[/quote]
8-10% are undecided. Events can overtake the election yet people are already voting. Election Day is 11/4. Until then attention must be paid. (Sorry, off my soap box now)[/quote]
See this is why I usually won’t get involved with any political debates, talks, forums. etc. if you state your opinion it just gets used for someone else’s fodder or give them the opportunity to jump on that “soap box”….I guess I should have said IMO. Or followed my own advise and said nothing in this political post.
PS I know when day Election Day is, and the importance of paying attention during this election. IMO
[quote comment="42366"][quote comment="42355"]
I’m not really confident that any real *c-word* will happen no matter who is elected. Such is life.
*c-word = change I have come to hate that word.[/quote]
Thank goodness. I was stuck on one particular c-word, and it didn’t sound too nice in that sentence. :shocked:[/quote]
hee hee
[quote comment="42355"]
I’m not really confident that any real *c-word* will happen no matter who is elected. Such is life.
*c-word = change I have come to hate that word.[/quote]
Thank goodness. I was stuck on one particular c-word, and it didn’t sound too nice in that sentence. :shocked:
[quote comment="42363"]Sounds like you’re from my state…good ol’ Taxachusetts. :blink:[/quote]
Yes ma’am – “Together we can!” :cwy:
I always love driving up Rt 128 @8AM on those City/State holidays. That’s when you realize just how many people actually work for the government.
[quote comment="42361"][quote comment="42359"]Alot of well thought out comments here and i enjoyed reading the dialouge. I’ll just say that the past twenty years or better have been a power struggle between rep, & dem. with little or no cooperation for the good of the people.
I am sick to the point of disgust with hardcore diehards of both sides. Enough with the far lefts and rights and extremests. Lets try to get along and see something done to help ordinary people prosper in the wealthiest and most powerful nation the world has ever seen.
They must reach across party lines to acomplish this for the the good of us all. :biggrin:[/quote]
The problem is, who votes? The candidates have to attract the voters and a huge block of the voters ARE the far left & right. In my state the public employee unions are the most powerful voting bloc. If a candidate doesn’t cater to them, they won’t get elected. That means they have to genuflect on wages, benefits, seniority, etc at times to the detriment of the general populace. It’s one of the reasons that our tax limiting law, Proposition 2 1/2, got passed decades ago.[/quote]
Sounds like you’re from my state…good ol’ Taxachusetts. :blink:
[quote comment="42361"][quote comment="42359"]Alot of well thought out comments here and i enjoyed reading the dialouge. I’ll just say that the past twenty years or better have been a power struggle between rep, & dem. with little or no cooperation for the good of the people.
I am sick to the point of disgust with hardcore diehards of both sides. Enough with the far lefts and rights and extremests. Lets try to get along and see something done to help ordinary people prosper in the wealthiest and most powerful nation the world has ever seen.
They must reach across party lines to acomplish this for the the good of us all. :biggrin:[/quote]
The problem is, who votes? The candidates have to attract the voters and a huge block of the voters ARE the far left & right. In my state the public employee unions are the most powerful voting bloc. If a candidate doesn’t cater to them, they won’t get elected. That means they have to genuflect on wages, benefits, seniority, etc at times to the detriment of the general populace. It’s one of the reasons that our tax limiting law, Proposition 2 1/2, got passed decades ago.[/quote]
I’ll be honest brother, your talking over my head, your understanding of limitations of guidelines is deeper then mine.
But I refrain once again to my point, Our government must learn to compromise for the sake of the people. I think in the long run it would increase their political chance of reelection. Special intrest groups are important, but only intrested in themselves not the majority of the people and to help improve the equality of all americans that is where the focus must rest, on welfare for the majority. Obviously party lines must be crossed to acomplish this. Its going to take guts and I dont know if it will ever happen but I think it is what most of us want.
[quote comment="42359"]Alot of well thought out comments here and i enjoyed reading the dialouge. I’ll just say that the past twenty years or better have been a power struggle between rep, & dem. with little or no cooperation for the good of the people.
I am sick to the point of disgust with hardcore diehards of both sides. Enough with the far lefts and rights and extremests. Lets try to get along and see something done to help ordinary people prosper in the wealthiest and most powerful nation the world has ever seen.
They must reach across party lines to acomplish this for the the good of us all. :biggrin:[/quote]
The problem is, who votes? The candidates have to attract the voters and a huge block of the voters ARE the far left & right. In my state the public employee unions are the most powerful voting bloc. If a candidate doesn’t cater to them, they won’t get elected. That means they have to genuflect on wages, benefits, seniority, etc at times to the detriment of the general populace. It’s one of the reasons that our tax limiting law, Proposition 2 1/2, got passed decades ago.
Alot of well thought out comments here and i enjoyed reading the dialouge. I’ll just say that the past twenty years or better have been a power struggle between rep, & dem. with little or no cooperation for the good of the people.
I am sick to the point of disgust with hardcore diehards of both sides. Enough with the far lefts and rights and extremests. Lets try to get along and see something done to help ordinary people prosper in the wealthiest and most powerful nation the world has ever seen.
They must reach across party lines to acomplish this for the the good of us all. :biggrin:
[quote comment="42355"][quote comment="42352"]I have intentionally not read any other commenst so forgive me if I am duplicting someone else. That was about the saddest and most dissapointing experience I have had in years. Markets are chrashing around the world, we are spending endless blood and treasure (that we don’t have) overseas, and the 2 men running for President act as if they aree unaware their is a global crisis in the works and instead play “naah,naah, I gotcha!”[/quote]
That is why I hate debates! It’s just who can “zing” the other. Real issues were not really addressed. I thought it was pretty pointless. Kind of a ‘why bother’ kind of thing.
I’m not really confident that any real *c-word* will happen no matter who is elected. Such is life.
*c-word = change I have come to hate that word.[/quote]
Me too, since “change” isn’t necessarily going to be a good thing in the end…just wait and see. :unsure:
[quote comment="42352"]I have intentionally not read any other commenst so forgive me if I am duplicting someone else. That was about the saddest and most dissapointing experience I have had in years. Markets are chrashing around the world, we are spending endless blood and treasure (that we don’t have) overseas, and the 2 men running for President act as if they aree unaware their is a global crisis in the works and instead play “naah,naah, I gotcha!”[/quote]
That is why I hate debates! It’s just who can “zing” the other. Real issues were not really addressed. I thought it was pretty pointless. Kind of a ‘why bother’ kind of thing.
I’m not really confident that any real *c-word* will happen no matter who is elected. Such is life.
*c-word = change I have come to hate that word.
[quote comment="42333"]At this point everyone knows who they are going to vote for, despite the mud slinging and name calling (last ditch efforts). Let’s just vote and be done with it. :blink:[/quote]
8-10% are undecided. Events can overtake the election yet people are already voting. Election Day is 11/4. Until then attention must be paid. (Sorry, off my soap box now)
[quote comment="42352"]I have intentionally not read any other commenst so forgive me if I am duplicting someone else. That was about the saddest and most dissapointing experience I have had in years. Markets are chrashing around the world, we are spending endless blood and treasure (that we don’t have) overseas, and the 2 men running for President act as if they aree unaware their is a global crisis in the works and instead play “naah,naah, I gotcha!”[/quote]
All spelling mistakes and typos are mine. I approve this message
I have intentionally not read any other commenst so forgive me if I am duplicting someone else. That was about the saddest and most dissapointing experience I have had in years. Markets are chrashing around the world, we are spending endless blood and treasure (that we don’t have) overseas, and the 2 men running for President act as if they aree unaware their is a global crisis in the works and instead play “naah,naah, I gotcha!”
gooooo obama a change we can belive in
[quote comment="42342"]
Also, my caption this for the photo on this post…
“I don’t know how to quit you.”
ha ha[/quote]
Angie… that’s priceless!!! :sideways: :silly: :sideways: :silly: :sideways: :silly:
[quote comment="42335"]Ah, the Electoral College – probably the most misunderstood portion of our election process. It was a compromise between a direct election by the voters and having Congress select the President.
There are 538 electoral college votes. Each state is allocated one per Senator (always 2) plus one for each member of the House. A State’s Congressional delegation is determined by the State’s population, which is why we have a census every 10 years. 48 States are winner-take-all – iow if a candidate gets a plurality then they receive all the electoral college votes from that state. 2 states (ME & NE) use various methods of proportionate vote totals.
For example, Indiana has 11 electoral college votes – 2 senators & 9 house members. Who ever gets a plurality of the popular vote will receive all 11 votes when the electoral college meets.
It’s important to note that a plurality is different than a majority. If there are only two candidates then they’re the same BUT if you had 3 candidates, Smith could get 400,000 votes, Jones 300,000 & Johnson 200,000. Even though Smith got less than 50% of the vote (400K out of 900K) he would get all the electoral college votes.
There are a WHOLE bunch of nuances but that’s the Reader’s Digest version.
Semi-clear?[/quote]
DOH! Figures it would involve math!
My thoughts:
Even though debates do not get into any specifics on the issues, they are important. They illustrate the speaking skills of the candidates. And although that sounds stupid, it really is of great importance to a president. A president must be a good speaker–using that to inspire a nation to get behind him. These skills are important. The debates show candidate personality. Some debates throughout history have been turning points in campaigns. Candidates can clearly “lose” a debate but that’s not what we’re seeing.
All that being said, I can’t stand to listen to most politicians talk. I am a strong partisan but politicians are politicians. My husband has been making me watch the debates this election year though (and he’s the one who doesn’t vote). And I know that candidates are schooled in debates and the formats are stringently created, but it’s still up to the candidate to follow through–to be eloquent, intelligent, and strong.
Also, candidates aren’t going to get specific on details about how they’re going to get something done because Congress is who gets it done. They run the risk of having a Congress who disagrees and then the public is against them. Also candidates don’t know what the world is going to look like when they get there so they play it close to the vest.
I guess I don’t hold it against the candidates that they don’t get specific. The specificities are hashed out in Congress and although the president has some leverage, in the end he’s often powerless in Congress. And I’m not talking about divided government necessarily because there’s research to show that divided governments pass just as much legislation as unified governments.
Oh, and Angie, I tell my students that the electoral college was a way to protect the country from the fleeting passions and ignorance of the masses. Although CB was correct, this was also a factor.
I hope all this came out right. I’m not too sure these days.
Slim can be my running mate! (only because Michael Johns is Australian. sorry Slim, you are my 2nd choice.)
Also, my caption this for the photo on this post…
“I don’t know how to quit you.”
ha ha
[quote comment="42331"][quote comment="42314"]I seriously hate debates with a passion. Almost as much as I hate politics. And most politicians.
Is the election over yet?[/quote]
When I say things like this, I just mean that I am TIRED. Tired of the name calling. Tired of the “I am better than you.” Tired of the “my party is the best and the rest of you are idiots!” Tired of “my guy won the debate!” Because guess what, depending on how you feel on the issues, then yes, your guy probably did win the debate. But ask someone who agrees with the other guy and they won’t think so. (that didn’t come out right but
I take voting very seriously, whether or not my vote counts for much or not. I am grateful and thankful that I live in this country and that I can vote for whomever I want. I vote on the issues. I vote for who I think MIGHT do right by America on the issues I believe in. Unfotunately, we can only vote for those running and frankly, most times, we must choose between the lesser of two evils.
I know I come across as goofy and silly most times, but there IS a serious, smart side to me, as well. :)
That being said, this confuses me EVERY election year. Will someone explain electoral votes to me in layman’s terms? I swear my brain can’t get it or remember it for 4 years.
Thanks!
:heart:[/quote]
TOTALLY sgree, Angie.
Angie for President ’08 ! :)
[quote comment="42335"]Ah, the Electoral College – probably the most misunderstood portion of our election process. It was a compromise between a direct election by the voters and having Congress select the President.
There are 538 electoral college votes. Each state is allocated one per Senator (always 2) plus one for each member of the House. A State’s Congressional delegation is determined by the State’s population, which is why we have a census every 10 years. 48 States are winner-take-all – iow if a candidate gets a plurality then they receive all the electoral college votes from that state. 2 states (ME & NE) use various methods of proportionate vote totals.
For example, Indiana has 11 electoral college votes – 2 senators & 9 house members. Who ever gets a plurality of the popular vote will receive all 11 votes when the electoral college meets.
It’s important to note that a plurality is different than a majority. If there are only two candidates then they’re the same BUT if you had 3 candidates, Smith could get 400,000 votes, Jones 300,000 & Johnson 200,000. Even though Smith got less than 50% of the vote (400K out of 900K) he would get all the electoral college votes.
There are a WHOLE bunch of nuances but that’s the Reader’s Digest version.
Semi-clear?[/quote]
Thanks, CB! You are awesome!
Ah, the Electoral College – probably the most misunderstood portion of our election process. It was a compromise between a direct election by the voters and having Congress select the President.
There are 538 electoral college votes. Each state is allocated one per Senator (always 2) plus one for each member of the House. A State’s Congressional delegation is determined by the State’s population, which is why we have a census every 10 years. 48 States are winner-take-all – iow if a candidate gets a plurality then they receive all the electoral college votes from that state. 2 states (ME & NE) use various methods of proportionate vote totals.
For example, Indiana has 11 electoral college votes – 2 senators & 9 house members. Who ever gets a plurality of the popular vote will receive all 11 votes when the electoral college meets.
It’s important to note that a plurality is different than a majority. If there are only two candidates then they’re the same BUT if you had 3 candidates, Smith could get 400,000 votes, Jones 300,000 & Johnson 200,000. Even though Smith got less than 50% of the vote (400K out of 900K) he would get all the electoral college votes.
There are a WHOLE bunch of nuances but that’s the Reader’s Digest version.
Semi-clear?
At this point everyone knows who they are going to vote for, despite the mud slinging and name calling (last ditch efforts). Let’s just vote and be done with it. :blink:
OOps..there’s an odd, disjointed sentence in that last post from me…please to be disregarding. lol :) :heart:
[quote comment="42314"]I seriously hate debates with a passion. Almost as much as I hate politics. And most politicians.
Is the election over yet?[/quote]
When I say things like this, I just mean that I am TIRED. Tired of the name calling. Tired of the “I am better than you.” Tired of the “my party is the best and the rest of you are idiots!” Tired of “my guy won the debate!” Because guess what, depending on how you feel on the issues, then yes, your guy probably did win the debate. But ask someone who agrees with the other guy and they won’t think so. (that didn’t come out right but
I take voting very seriously, whether or not my vote counts for much or not. I am grateful and thankful that I live in this country and that I can vote for whomever I want. I vote on the issues. I vote for who I think MIGHT do right by America on the issues I believe in. Unfotunately, we can only vote for those running and frankly, most times, we must choose between the lesser of two evils.
I know I come across as goofy and silly most times, but there IS a serious, smart side to me, as well. :)
That being said, this confuses me EVERY election year. Will someone explain electoral votes to me in layman’s terms? I swear my brain can’t get it or remember it for 4 years.
Thanks!
:heart:
No disrespect intended. The point is that people are dying every day for the right to use a ballot box. I think sometimes Americans forget that.
The problem, as always, is whose ox is being gored. I’m not quite your age but retirement also isn’t an ethereal thing off in the future somewhere. I would appreciate a government that said the gravy train was over. There is – zero – nada – zip – chance that the feds are going to be able to fund SSA & Medicare/Medicaid entitlement programs at current rates. Actuarily it can’t happen. Every day they wait increases the burden.
The question becomes whether or not the huge voting block that makes up the baby-boomers & elderly is willing to be told that benefits are going to be slashed or will they just continue with the “I got mine – scr*w you” mentality that seems to pervade not just them but all voting blocks. As long as the b*st*rds in Washington can continue to get the people arguing amongst themselves it deflects the pressure from them.
[quote comment="42228"]Wow, that picture could be a “caption this”!![/quote]
I thought the same thing ! Lol. :tongue:
With all due respect C_B, I served in Viet Nam, so I know what a government controlled by an AK-47 looks like.
My point is very much like yours. I am weary of the meaningless rhetoric and name calling and avoiding the issues. I will qualify for medicare next month and no one wants to talk about fixing it or social security.
Neither party will admit that the other side might actually have a good idea and that by working together, solutions can be found.
I also grow weary of the media telling us who “won” the debate. For once, I would like the American people to win. I especailly dislike CNN’s running score card. It appears that the network is attempting to influence my vote by telling me who is the better debater.
I’ve made my decision, I am ready to vote and I am ready to get on with fixing what is broken in this country. Lord knows there are plenty of broken parts to choose from.
[quote comment="42315"][quote comment="42314"]I seriously hate debates with a passion. Almost as much as I hate politics. And most politicians.
Is the election over yet?[/quote]
I will follow my queen with this one. I am tired of the whole campaign at this point. Let’s just vote and get it over with.[/quote]
That disturbs me. Sorry folks, nobody ever said democracy was easy. There are plenty of countries out there that the ballot box has been replaced by a clip from an AK-47.
I watched last night. There was one lady who asked the question – and I’m paraphrasing – “Why should we trust either one of you?” The interesting response from both was basically ‘I don’t blame you.” That’s a problem.
I’ve long been a proponent of two things. First, having one party control one branch and the other party control the other. I thought it would be a good set of checks & balances. Secondly, “Vote the bums out” – your bums, my bums, doesn’t matter – keep the central government weak. Let ‘em go up there for a couple of terms and then get them the h*ll out. That’s how you stop entrenched politicians. Stopping entrenched politicians stops the effectiveness of lobbyists who trade on long standing friendships.
#1 is no longer true. It used to be that the two parties would hash stuff out & come to some sort of compromise. Now it seems that there’s a tacit agreement of “You vote for mine & I’ll vote for yours.” I hate to say it but maybe one party rule would be cheaper in the long run.
We’re getting close to a crossroads. When 50% + 1 of the population gets their sustenance from the government we’re all doomed anyway. You’ll note that specifically absent last night was any clear statement by either one on the need to reel in Social Security or Medicaid expenses – the so-called “Third Rail of Politics”. Everything else is just window dressing.
[quote comment="42314"]I seriously hate debates with a passion. Almost as much as I hate politics. And most politicians.
Is the election over yet?[/quote]
I will follow my queen with this one. I am tired of the whole campaign at this point. Let’s just vote and get it over with.
I seriously hate debates with a passion. Almost as much as I hate politics. And most politicians.
Is the election over yet?
O: Meet me in the ring on WWE Raw and I’ll show you who’s fit to lead!
M: I’ll just get Ted, Cody and Manu to beat the crap out of you and then kick you head off. No problem.
HAHAHA, OMG, I thought the same thing!!
“Closer and closer the two men drew, finding they had more in common than just presidential aspirations.”
Wow, that picture could be a “caption this”!!