This just came up on my Yahoo Home Page. GREAT news, IF they really investigate and are not afraid to !.
Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 4:42 pm EDT
IOC orders investigation into He Kexin’s age
By Chris Chase
The International Olympic Committee has ordered an investigation into the age of Chinese gymnast He Kexin, The Times of London reports. Faced with almost insurmountable evidence which suggests that He is two years younger than the birth date listed on her Chinese passport, the IOC has launched an inquiry that could result in the stripping of He’s gold medals.
This news comes on the heels of another Times report that details the findings of a New York computer security expert who found official Chinese documents that list He’s age as 14 years and 220 days. Mike Walker used a Chinese search engine’s cache feature to find He’s actual date of birth on spreadsheets from a Chinese government website. The spreadsheets were taken down off the site recently and He’s name had been removed.
Assuming the IOC is committed to a real investigation and not some dog and pony show, the revelation that the Chinese government covered up the ages of gymnasts could end up being the defining moment of these Games for the host country. Officials wanted the Olympics to be a coming out party for a new China. But while the Games have been a huge success, there is a legitimate possibility that China’s legacy from Beijing ’08 will be that of a massive government cover-up, not the magical Opening Ceremony or the transformation of Beijing or anything else positive.
All the good work China did to put on these Olympics could be forgotten because of an unnecessary, arrogant move by the government. Why risk everything to put a 14-year old in the competition when they could have replaced her with an of-age 16-year old gymnast? Sure, He is a better gymnast than the Chinese gymnasts who were eligible to compete, but with the judges they had at the Olympics, would it really have mattered?
[quote comment="39671"][quote comment="39669"]I realize what the issue is. Really I do. I guess I’m just desensitized to all the ‘life isn’t fair’ stuff. If there is cheating involved, yes, it sucks. In the end, there is no one besides the Chinese powers that be and the IOC to blame.
Oh well, I feel the way I feel and I don’t begrudge anyone else their own feelings.
I personally am ready for the Olympics to be over with ![/quote]
Amen. :pouty:[/quote]
Not me! :w00t: I really want to see Misty and Kerri go for the gold!
[quote comment="39669"]I realize what the issue is. Really I do. I guess I’m just desensitized to all the ‘life isn’t fair’ stuff. If there is cheating involved, yes, it sucks. In the end, there is no one besides the Chinese powers that be and the IOC to blame.
Oh well, I feel the way I feel and I don’t begrudge anyone else their own feelings.
I personally am ready for the Olympics to be over with ![/quote]
I realize what the issue is. Really I do. I guess I’m just desensitized to all the ‘life isn’t fair’ stuff. If there is cheating involved, yes, it sucks. In the end, there is no one besides the Chinese powers that be and the IOC to blame.
Oh well, I feel the way I feel and I don’t begrudge anyone else their own feelings.
I personally am ready for the Olympics to be over with !
I rarely voice a dissenting opinion, but no offense to others, but in this case, I’m just not that interested. It’s been beat to death.
Also, Joyce, going back to something else you said, I think the one Chinese girl is just tiny but her face just looks like a young girl to me. Not neccessarily a lot younger than 16.
Anyway, I’ll sure miss the Olympics when they’re over![/quote]
The issue has not been how young the girls look. The issue is that just a year ago these girls were competeing as 13 years olds. They cannot age 3 years in one year. Even the Chinese website had them listed as underaged. They took the info off the site right when the news got out.
What bothers me is not that and American got screwed. What bothers me is that a team blatantly defied the rules and were caught but nothing is being done about it.
I rarely voice a dissenting opinion, but no offense to others, but in this case, I’m just not that interested. It’s been beat to death.
Also, Joyce, going back to something else you said, I think the one Chinese girl is just tiny but her face just looks like a young girl to me. Not neccessarily a lot younger than 16.
Anyway, I’ll sure miss the Olympics when they’re over!
[quote comment="39632"]No AND who cares. I love my country, but… nevermind, I’ll just get all riled up. I enjoy the games but I really don’t care. If that makes me unfeeling and cold, well, I guess I’m unfeeling and cold.[/quote]
Thank you and high five. I thought it was just me!!! I mean, I’m all for following rules and all that, but for some reason, I just don’t feel passionate about this one.
No AND who cares. I love my country, but… nevermind, I’ll just get all riled up. I enjoy the games but I really don’t care. If that makes me unfeeling and cold, well, I guess I’m unfeeling and cold.
I’ve done a lot of reading on the Chinese government and the country’s rise to economic power. It should not shock anyone that they would cheat to win. The communist government wants the world to believe things that are completely false. I think the world knew the IOC made a mistake by putting the Olympics in China. It hasn’t made life better for the Chinese people and it has done nothing to decrease the human rights violations going on daily.
The sad part is that I don’t think the IOC has the courage to pull these medals. It was known BEFORE the event that these girls were younger than advertised but the IOC let it slide. But they have had no problem punishing other athletes for their actions. The lesson we’ve learned is that it is ok to cheat the rules to win but it’s not ok to drop your medal in protest.
[quote comment="39622"]I am not sure why we would expect anything different from the Chinese government. Any means to achieve an end goal is acceptable. It’s kind of like Big Brother, if you have to lie to win, so what? Either enforce the rules or cause the rules to be changed![/quote]
These Olympics are a travesty. A communist nation is the host. The stands are nearly empty. The press is being openly censored. The military and police has boxed visitors into zones, and any protest is quickly squashed. Fake fireworks and singers, and surely a few faked passports as well. It is a real shame. Reminds me of the German Olympics where Hitler expected the world to see Nazi supremacy. Here the Chinese want the world to see their open society. Sure it is open, as long as you follow their strict rules, read their news, surf their web, and go where you are allowed. What a joke.
I am not sure why we would expect anything different from the Chinese government. Any means to achieve an end goal is acceptable. It’s kind of like Big Brother, if you have to lie to win, so what? Either enforce the rules or cause the rules to be changed!
[quote comment="39619"]It would not be a surprise if they did. The sad part of it is if they strip some poor 14 year old girl of her medal.[/quote]
A medal she just might have achieved illegally. Sad for her, I’m sure. But how sad was it for the other girls from other countries who had a possible unfair disadvantage of being a qualified age, losing to a girl , or girls whose country did not abide by the RULES ?
[quote comment="39613"][quote comment="39612"]Well, Bela Karolyi (sp?) made it a huge issue on NBC, so I’m sure it will be looked into. The American coaches and powers that be won’t let it slide if they really feel that the Chinese broke the rules, so I’m sure it’ll all get figured out before long.[/quote]
I wonder though if it would be to late to pull their medals if they are found to have broken the rules.[/quote]
Privately, some gymnastics officials said that even if other countries had real concerns about the Chinese, they might be reluctant to make accusations for fear of reprisals by judges at the Beijing Games.
If it is true that under-age gymnasts are competing, Kim said: “It’s a bad thing. It should not be acceptable.”
Bela Karolyi, who coached Retton of the United States and Nadia Comaneci of Romania to their Olympic gold-medal triumphs, said the problem of under-age gymnasts had been around for years. Age is an easy thing to alter in an authoritarian country, he said, because the government has such strict control of official paperwork.
It’s literally impossible,” he said. “The paperwork is changed just too good. In a country like that, they’re experts at it. Nothing new.”
[quote comment="39613"][quote comment="39612"]Well, Bela Karolyi (sp?) made it a huge issue on NBC, so I’m sure it will be looked into. The American coaches and powers that be won’t let it slide if they really feel that the Chinese broke the rules, so I’m sure it’ll all get figured out before long.[/quote]
I wonder though if it would be to late to pull their medals if they are found to have broken the rules.[/quote]
In the Winter Olympics, the Canadian pair skaters who were originally give the silver medal, ended up sharing gold with the Russian pair in a decision that was made after the fact. Seems like it was a day or two later.
Age-fixing in Chinese sport has been in the news before. In sports where limber, prepubescent bodies can outmaneuver more mature athletes, kids can be designated as older than they are. Yang Yun, a Chinese gymnast who was listed as 16 when she won double bronzes at Sydney, later went on Chinese television and said she had been 14 when she competed.
Within China’s domestic sports scene there has been age-fixing as well. Young athletes can be designated as younger than they are so they can dominate in age-based competitions, as was the case with Chinese basketball star Wang Zhizhi, whose age was listed in inter-club competitions as two years younger than he actually was.
Earlier this year, a 14-year-old table-tennis prodigy in eastern Shandong province told me quite cheerfully that she competes as an 11-year-old in provincial and regional age-ranked competitions. Her national identity card, she said, had been changed to reflect the false birth-date. “It’s no big deal,” she insisted. “Most of my friends do it, too.” Her coach, who hadn’t been present when I interviewed the girl, denied any age-fixing at the school, although he said he was quite sure it happened at other academies.
[quote comment="39612"]Well, Bela Karolyi (sp?) made it a huge issue on NBC, so I’m sure it will be looked into. The American coaches and powers that be won’t let it slide if they really feel that the Chinese broke the rules, so I’m sure it’ll all get figured out before long.[/quote]
I wonder though if it would be to late to pull their medals if they are found to have broken the rules.
Well, Bela Karolyi (sp?) made it a huge issue on NBC, so I’m sure it will be looked into. The American coaches and powers that be won’t let it slide if they really feel that the Chinese broke the rules, so I’m sure it’ll all get figured out before long.
ESPN
Associated Press
Age falsification has been a problem in gymnastics since the 1980s, after the minimum age was raised from 14 to 15 to protect young athletes from serious injuries. The minimum age was raised to its current 16 in 1997.
North Korea was barred from the 1993 world championships after FIG officials discovered that Kim Gwang Suk, the gold medalist on uneven bars in 1991, was listed as 15 for three years in a row. Romania admitted in 2002 that several gymnasts’ ages had been falsified, including Olympic medalists Gina Gogean and Alexandra Marinescu.
Even China’s own Yang Yun, a double bronze medalist in Sydney, said during an interview aired on state broadcaster China Central Television that she was 14 in 2000.
But questions about the current Chinese team have been particularly fierce. The New York Times first reported the suspicions about He and Jiang, and the AP also has found documents that indicate the two might be too young to compete.
He’s birthdate is listed as Jan. 1, 1994 in the 2005, 2006 and 2007 registration lists found by the AP. She is not found on the 2004 list. A list of competitors at a 2007 provincial competition shows Jiang with an Oct. 1, 1993, birthdate.
There are also possible inconsistencies involving alternate Sui Lu. The 2004 and 2005 registration lists include an athlete named Sui Lu who was born on April 1, 1993. In the 2006 and 2007 lists, however, the birthday is given as April 1, 1992, and the Chinese character for her first name “Lu” is different from the one used previously.
“Not to do anything about that, this is ridiculous,” said longtime gymnastics coach Bela Karolyi, who will be part of NBC’s broadcast team in Beijing and whose wife, Martha, is now the coordinator of the U.S. team. “It’s just as grave and just as brutal like cheating with doping.”
I know this is kind of long, but I am quoting this from the New York Times:
Online records listing Chinese gymnasts and their ages that were posted on official Web sites in China, along with ages given in the official Chinese news media, however, seem to contradict the passport information, indicating that He and Jiang may be as young as 14 — two years below the Olympic limit.
An advantage for younger gymnasts is that they are lighter and, often, more fearless when they perform difficult maneuvers, said Nellie Kim, a five-time Olympic gold medalist for the former Soviet Union who is now the president of the women’s technical committee for the Swiss-based International Gymnastics Federation.
“It’s easier to do tricks,” Kim said. “And psychologically, I think they worry less.”
In Chinese newspaper profiles this year, He was listed as 14, too young for the Beijing Games.
The Times found two online records of official registration lists of Chinese gymnasts that list He’s birthday as Jan. 1, 1994, which would make her 14. A 2007 national registry of Chinese gymnasts — now blocked in China but viewable through Google cache — shows He’s age as “1994.1.1.”
Another registration list that is unblocked, dated Jan. 27, 2006, and regarding an “intercity” competition in Chengdu, China, also lists He’s birthday as Jan. 1, 1994. That date differs by two years from the birth date of Jan. 1, 1992, listed on He’s passport, which was issued Feb. 14, 2008.
There has been considerable talk about the ages of Chinese gymnasts on Web sites devoted to the sport. And there has been frequent editing of He’s Wikipedia entry, although it could not be determined by whom. One paragraph that discusses the controversy of her age kept disappearing and reappearing on He’s entry. As of Friday, a different version of the paragraph had been restored to the page.
A different birth date, indicating Jiang is not yet 15, appears on a list of junior competitors from the Zhejiang Province sports administration. The list of athletes includes national identification card numbers into which birth dates are embedded. Jiang’s national card number as it appears on this list shows her birth date as Oct. 1, 1993, which indicates that she will turn 15 in the fall, and would thus be ineligible to compete in the Beijing Games.
And once again, I would have no problem with this if EVERY country could use “children” in the Olympics.
[quote comment="39605"]Looking at the pictures of the Chinese girls in the “Liukin Robbed” post, I honestly think they are old enough. Are those the specific girls in question? Their faces look 16 to me. JMO.[/quote]
I believe the won that won bronze in that photo is one of the ones in question. I will look into that question though.
Looking at the pictures of the Chinese girls in the “Liukin Robbed” post, I honestly think they are old enough. Are those the specific girls in question? Their faces look 16 to me. JMO.
[quote comment="39599"]Some of those Chinese girls did look awfully young, but they very well could have been the right age and just have baby faces. I mean, they are so petite that it would tend to make them look younger.
However, in my opinion it doesn’t matter one bit to the competition. If you want a 12 yr old to represent your country in gymnastics and if she’s good enough to medal, who cares? That’s my take on it. If it were a doping issue it would be different, but I don’t see age as being any big deal.[/quote]
Then EVERY country should be allowed to use any age child that they choose, safe or not. I’m sure the outcome would have been different for every country, not just China, if we could all have used girls of any age . In order to make the Olympics fair, then the rules have to be followed by everyone. If they want to change the rules for EVERYONE, then there would be no issues.
I have zero issues with losing, I do not like it, but if one loses “fair-and-square” and all played by the RULES, then there are zero issues. When it is blatantly obvious that rules are broken, whether it be falsified documents to help your country win, or scores or marks that are skewed to the point of ridiculous, then there ARE issues.
[quote comment="39601"]Yes, of course rules are rules. My answer was from the perspective of “does it matter”….
I do agree that they need to follow the rules. I should have been more clear on what I was saying.[/quote]
got ya. as for that point, I agree. If they are good enough to compete, let them but if there are rules stating they can’t, the rules must be followed :)
Yes, of course rules are rules. My answer was from the perspective of “does it matter”…. I do agree that they need to follow the rules. I should have been more clear on what I was saying.
[quote comment="39599"]Some of those Chinese girls did look awfully young, but they very well could have been the right age and just have baby faces. I mean, they are so petite that it would tend to make them look younger.
However, in my opinion it doesn’t matter one bit to the competition. If you want a 12 yr old to represent your country in gymnastics and if she’s good enough to medal, who cares? That’s my take on it. If it were a doping issue it would be different, but I don’t see age as being any big deal.[/quote]
It wouldn’t be an issue if rules weren’t rules. rules state they must be 16 to compete.
Some of those Chinese girls did look awfully young, but they very well could have been the right age and just have baby faces. I mean, they are so petite that it would tend to make them look younger.
However, in my opinion it doesn’t matter one bit to the competition. If you want a 12 yr old to represent your country in gymnastics and if she’s good enough to medal, who cares? That’s my take on it. If it were a doping issue it would be different, but I don’t see age as being any big deal.
Just nine months before the Beijing Olympics, the Chinese government’s news agency, Xinhua, reported that gymnast He Kexin was 13, which would have made her ineligible to be on the team that won a gold medal last week.
In its report Nov. 3, Xinhua identified He as one of “10 big new stars” who made a splash at China’s Cities Games. It gave her age as 13 and reported that she beat Yang Yilin on the uneven bars at those games. In the final, “this little girl” pulled off a difficult release move on the bars known as the Li Na, named for another Chinese gymnast, Xinhua said in the report, which appeared on one of its Web sites, http://www.hb.xinhuanet.com
The Associated Press found the Xinhua report on the site last Thursday morning and saved a copy of the page. Later that afternoon, the Web site was still working but the page was no longer accessible. Sports editors at the state-run news agency would not comment for publication. hmmmm….
If the age reported by Xinhua was correct, that would have meant He was too young to be on the Chinese team that beat the United States on Wednesday and clinched China’s first women’s team Olympic gold in gymnastics. He was also a favorite for gold in Monday’s uneven bars final.
China’s response?”We already explained this very clearly. There’s no need to discuss this thing again.” Sounds pretty simple, right?
Regardless of whether the rules are fair or not they are the rules. And they should be followed by EVERYONE. PERIOD. Yes, China did win but if they blatantly disregarded a major Gymnastic qualification rule does that make their win as golden? The reasons for the age restrictions are obvious, I feel. They are to prevent younger girls from being abused and to make sure that the girls going into these extremely stressful and traumatic matches are mature enough to handle the emotions behind it. If China disregarded these rules I feel more for the girls because they’re welfare was not taken into account. And it just sets a bad example…win at all costs.
Yes indeed…
This just came up on my Yahoo Home Page. GREAT news, IF they really investigate and are not afraid to !.
Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 4:42 pm EDT
IOC orders investigation into He Kexin’s age
By Chris Chase
The International Olympic Committee has ordered an investigation into the age of Chinese gymnast He Kexin, The Times of London reports. Faced with almost insurmountable evidence which suggests that He is two years younger than the birth date listed on her Chinese passport, the IOC has launched an inquiry that could result in the stripping of He’s gold medals.
This news comes on the heels of another Times report that details the findings of a New York computer security expert who found official Chinese documents that list He’s age as 14 years and 220 days. Mike Walker used a Chinese search engine’s cache feature to find He’s actual date of birth on spreadsheets from a Chinese government website. The spreadsheets were taken down off the site recently and He’s name had been removed.
Assuming the IOC is committed to a real investigation and not some dog and pony show, the revelation that the Chinese government covered up the ages of gymnasts could end up being the defining moment of these Games for the host country. Officials wanted the Olympics to be a coming out party for a new China. But while the Games have been a huge success, there is a legitimate possibility that China’s legacy from Beijing ’08 will be that of a massive government cover-up, not the magical Opening Ceremony or the transformation of Beijing or anything else positive.
All the good work China did to put on these Olympics could be forgotten because of an unnecessary, arrogant move by the government. Why risk everything to put a 14-year old in the competition when they could have replaced her with an of-age 16-year old gymnast? Sure, He is a better gymnast than the Chinese gymnasts who were eligible to compete, but with the judges they had at the Olympics, would it really have mattered?
[quote comment="39671"][quote comment="39669"]I realize what the issue is. Really I do. I guess I’m just desensitized to all the ‘life isn’t fair’ stuff. If there is cheating involved, yes, it sucks. In the end, there is no one besides the Chinese powers that be and the IOC to blame.
Oh well, I feel the way I feel and I don’t begrudge anyone else their own feelings.
I personally am ready for the Olympics to be over with ![/quote]
Amen. :pouty:[/quote]
Not me! :w00t: I really want to see Misty and Kerri go for the gold!
The real medal count….
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/The-REAL-Olympic-medal-count?urn=oly,101537
[quote comment="39669"]I realize what the issue is. Really I do. I guess I’m just desensitized to all the ‘life isn’t fair’ stuff. If there is cheating involved, yes, it sucks. In the end, there is no one besides the Chinese powers that be and the IOC to blame.
Oh well, I feel the way I feel and I don’t begrudge anyone else their own feelings.
I personally am ready for the Olympics to be over with ![/quote]
Amen. :pouty:
I realize what the issue is. Really I do. I guess I’m just desensitized to all the ‘life isn’t fair’ stuff. If there is cheating involved, yes, it sucks. In the end, there is no one besides the Chinese powers that be and the IOC to blame.
Oh well, I feel the way I feel and I don’t begrudge anyone else their own feelings.
I personally am ready for the Olympics to be over with !
I’ve never been too fond of cheaters. ESPECIALLY those that get away with it. :angry:
[quote comment="39638"]High five, baby!
I rarely voice a dissenting opinion, but no offense to others, but in this case, I’m just not that interested. It’s been beat to death.
Also, Joyce, going back to something else you said, I think the one Chinese girl is just tiny but her face just looks like a young girl to me. Not neccessarily a lot younger than 16.
Anyway, I’ll sure miss the Olympics when they’re over![/quote]
The issue has not been how young the girls look. The issue is that just a year ago these girls were competeing as 13 years olds. They cannot age 3 years in one year. Even the Chinese website had them listed as underaged. They took the info off the site right when the news got out.
What bothers me is not that and American got screwed. What bothers me is that a team blatantly defied the rules and were caught but nothing is being done about it.
High five, baby!
I rarely voice a dissenting opinion, but no offense to others, but in this case, I’m just not that interested. It’s been beat to death.
Also, Joyce, going back to something else you said, I think the one Chinese girl is just tiny but her face just looks like a young girl to me. Not neccessarily a lot younger than 16.
Anyway, I’ll sure miss the Olympics when they’re over!
[quote comment="39632"]No AND who cares. I love my country, but… nevermind, I’ll just get all riled up. I enjoy the games but I really don’t care. If that makes me unfeeling and cold, well, I guess I’m unfeeling and cold.[/quote]
Thank you and high five. I thought it was just me!!! I mean, I’m all for following rules and all that, but for some reason, I just don’t feel passionate about this one.
No AND who cares. I love my country, but… nevermind, I’ll just get all riled up. I enjoy the games but I really don’t care. If that makes me unfeeling and cold, well, I guess I’m unfeeling and cold.
I’ve done a lot of reading on the Chinese government and the country’s rise to economic power. It should not shock anyone that they would cheat to win. The communist government wants the world to believe things that are completely false. I think the world knew the IOC made a mistake by putting the Olympics in China. It hasn’t made life better for the Chinese people and it has done nothing to decrease the human rights violations going on daily.
The sad part is that I don’t think the IOC has the courage to pull these medals. It was known BEFORE the event that these girls were younger than advertised but the IOC let it slide. But they have had no problem punishing other athletes for their actions. The lesson we’ve learned is that it is ok to cheat the rules to win but it’s not ok to drop your medal in protest.
[quote comment="39622"]I am not sure why we would expect anything different from the Chinese government. Any means to achieve an end goal is acceptable. It’s kind of like Big Brother, if you have to lie to win, so what? Either enforce the rules or cause the rules to be changed![/quote]
These Olympics are a travesty. A communist nation is the host. The stands are nearly empty. The press is being openly censored. The military and police has boxed visitors into zones, and any protest is quickly squashed. Fake fireworks and singers, and surely a few faked passports as well. It is a real shame. Reminds me of the German Olympics where Hitler expected the world to see Nazi supremacy. Here the Chinese want the world to see their open society. Sure it is open, as long as you follow their strict rules, read their news, surf their web, and go where you are allowed. What a joke.
I am not sure why we would expect anything different from the Chinese government. Any means to achieve an end goal is acceptable. It’s kind of like Big Brother, if you have to lie to win, so what? Either enforce the rules or cause the rules to be changed!
[quote comment="39619"]It would not be a surprise if they did. The sad part of it is if they strip some poor 14 year old girl of her medal.[/quote]
A medal she just might have achieved illegally. Sad for her, I’m sure. But how sad was it for the other girls from other countries who had a possible unfair disadvantage of being a qualified age, losing to a girl , or girls whose country did not abide by the RULES ?
It would not be a surprise if they did. The sad part of it is if they strip some poor 14 year old girl of her medal.
It would not be the first time the Chinese lied about something like that.
Of course the Chinese would lie, cheat or anything else that they can do to feed their propaganda machine.
[quote comment="39613"][quote comment="39612"]Well, Bela Karolyi (sp?) made it a huge issue on NBC, so I’m sure it will be looked into. The American coaches and powers that be won’t let it slide if they really feel that the Chinese broke the rules, so I’m sure it’ll all get figured out before long.[/quote]
I wonder though if it would be to late to pull their medals if they are found to have broken the rules.[/quote]
Privately, some gymnastics officials said that even if other countries had real concerns about the Chinese, they might be reluctant to make accusations for fear of reprisals by judges at the Beijing Games.
If it is true that under-age gymnasts are competing, Kim said: “It’s a bad thing. It should not be acceptable.”
Bela Karolyi, who coached Retton of the United States and Nadia Comaneci of Romania to their Olympic gold-medal triumphs, said the problem of under-age gymnasts had been around for years. Age is an easy thing to alter in an authoritarian country, he said, because the government has such strict control of official paperwork.
It’s literally impossible,” he said. “The paperwork is changed just too good. In a country like that, they’re experts at it. Nothing new.”
So there you have it !
[quote comment="39613"][quote comment="39612"]Well, Bela Karolyi (sp?) made it a huge issue on NBC, so I’m sure it will be looked into. The American coaches and powers that be won’t let it slide if they really feel that the Chinese broke the rules, so I’m sure it’ll all get figured out before long.[/quote]
I wonder though if it would be to late to pull their medals if they are found to have broken the rules.[/quote]
In the Winter Olympics, the Canadian pair skaters who were originally give the silver medal, ended up sharing gold with the Russian pair in a decision that was made after the fact. Seems like it was a day or two later.
Age-fixing in Chinese sport has been in the news before. In sports where limber, prepubescent bodies can outmaneuver more mature athletes, kids can be designated as older than they are. Yang Yun, a Chinese gymnast who was listed as 16 when she won double bronzes at Sydney, later went on Chinese television and said she had been 14 when she competed.
Within China’s domestic sports scene there has been age-fixing as well. Young athletes can be designated as younger than they are so they can dominate in age-based competitions, as was the case with Chinese basketball star Wang Zhizhi, whose age was listed in inter-club competitions as two years younger than he actually was.
Earlier this year, a 14-year-old table-tennis prodigy in eastern Shandong province told me quite cheerfully that she competes as an 11-year-old in provincial and regional age-ranked competitions. Her national identity card, she said, had been changed to reflect the false birth-date. “It’s no big deal,” she insisted. “Most of my friends do it, too.” Her coach, who hadn’t been present when I interviewed the girl, denied any age-fixing at the school, although he said he was quite sure it happened at other academies.
Source: TIME in Partnership with CNN.
[quote comment="39612"]Well, Bela Karolyi (sp?) made it a huge issue on NBC, so I’m sure it will be looked into. The American coaches and powers that be won’t let it slide if they really feel that the Chinese broke the rules, so I’m sure it’ll all get figured out before long.[/quote]
I wonder though if it would be to late to pull their medals if they are found to have broken the rules.
Well, Bela Karolyi (sp?) made it a huge issue on NBC, so I’m sure it will be looked into. The American coaches and powers that be won’t let it slide if they really feel that the Chinese broke the rules, so I’m sure it’ll all get figured out before long.
ESPN
Associated Press
Age falsification has been a problem in gymnastics since the 1980s, after the minimum age was raised from 14 to 15 to protect young athletes from serious injuries. The minimum age was raised to its current 16 in 1997.
North Korea was barred from the 1993 world championships after FIG officials discovered that Kim Gwang Suk, the gold medalist on uneven bars in 1991, was listed as 15 for three years in a row. Romania admitted in 2002 that several gymnasts’ ages had been falsified, including Olympic medalists Gina Gogean and Alexandra Marinescu.
Even China’s own Yang Yun, a double bronze medalist in Sydney, said during an interview aired on state broadcaster China Central Television that she was 14 in 2000.
But questions about the current Chinese team have been particularly fierce. The New York Times first reported the suspicions about He and Jiang, and the AP also has found documents that indicate the two might be too young to compete.
He’s birthdate is listed as Jan. 1, 1994 in the 2005, 2006 and 2007 registration lists found by the AP. She is not found on the 2004 list. A list of competitors at a 2007 provincial competition shows Jiang with an Oct. 1, 1993, birthdate.
There are also possible inconsistencies involving alternate Sui Lu. The 2004 and 2005 registration lists include an athlete named Sui Lu who was born on April 1, 1993. In the 2006 and 2007 lists, however, the birthday is given as April 1, 1992, and the Chinese character for her first name “Lu” is different from the one used previously.
“Not to do anything about that, this is ridiculous,” said longtime gymnastics coach Bela Karolyi, who will be part of NBC’s broadcast team in Beijing and whose wife, Martha, is now the coordinator of the U.S. team. “It’s just as grave and just as brutal like cheating with doping.”
so that Rachel would put them both in question :)
I know this is kind of long, but I am quoting this from the New York Times:
Online records listing Chinese gymnasts and their ages that were posted on official Web sites in China, along with ages given in the official Chinese news media, however, seem to contradict the passport information, indicating that He and Jiang may be as young as 14 — two years below the Olympic limit.
An advantage for younger gymnasts is that they are lighter and, often, more fearless when they perform difficult maneuvers, said Nellie Kim, a five-time Olympic gold medalist for the former Soviet Union who is now the president of the women’s technical committee for the Swiss-based International Gymnastics Federation.
“It’s easier to do tricks,” Kim said. “And psychologically, I think they worry less.”
In Chinese newspaper profiles this year, He was listed as 14, too young for the Beijing Games.
The Times found two online records of official registration lists of Chinese gymnasts that list He’s birthday as Jan. 1, 1994, which would make her 14. A 2007 national registry of Chinese gymnasts — now blocked in China but viewable through Google cache — shows He’s age as “1994.1.1.”
Another registration list that is unblocked, dated Jan. 27, 2006, and regarding an “intercity” competition in Chengdu, China, also lists He’s birthday as Jan. 1, 1994. That date differs by two years from the birth date of Jan. 1, 1992, listed on He’s passport, which was issued Feb. 14, 2008.
There has been considerable talk about the ages of Chinese gymnasts on Web sites devoted to the sport. And there has been frequent editing of He’s Wikipedia entry, although it could not be determined by whom. One paragraph that discusses the controversy of her age kept disappearing and reappearing on He’s entry. As of Friday, a different version of the paragraph had been restored to the page.
A different birth date, indicating Jiang is not yet 15, appears on a list of junior competitors from the Zhejiang Province sports administration. The list of athletes includes national identification card numbers into which birth dates are embedded. Jiang’s national card number as it appears on this list shows her birth date as Oct. 1, 1993, which indicates that she will turn 15 in the fall, and would thus be ineligible to compete in the Beijing Games.
And once again, I would have no problem with this if EVERY country could use “children” in the Olympics.
[quote comment="39605"]Looking at the pictures of the Chinese girls in the “Liukin Robbed” post, I honestly think they are old enough. Are those the specific girls in question? Their faces look 16 to me. JMO.[/quote]
I believe the won that won bronze in that photo is one of the ones in question. I will look into that question though.
Looking at the pictures of the Chinese girls in the “Liukin Robbed” post, I honestly think they are old enough. Are those the specific girls in question? Their faces look 16 to me. JMO.
[quote comment="39599"]Some of those Chinese girls did look awfully young, but they very well could have been the right age and just have baby faces. I mean, they are so petite that it would tend to make them look younger.
However, in my opinion it doesn’t matter one bit to the competition. If you want a 12 yr old to represent your country in gymnastics and if she’s good enough to medal, who cares? That’s my take on it. If it were a doping issue it would be different, but I don’t see age as being any big deal.[/quote]
Then EVERY country should be allowed to use any age child that they choose, safe or not. I’m sure the outcome would have been different for every country, not just China, if we could all have used girls of any age . In order to make the Olympics fair, then the rules have to be followed by everyone. If they want to change the rules for EVERYONE, then there would be no issues.
I have zero issues with losing, I do not like it, but if one loses “fair-and-square” and all played by the RULES, then there are zero issues. When it is blatantly obvious that rules are broken, whether it be falsified documents to help your country win, or scores or marks that are skewed to the point of ridiculous, then there ARE issues.
[quote comment="39601"]Yes, of course rules are rules. My answer was from the perspective of “does it matter”….
I do agree that they need to follow the rules. I should have been more clear on what I was saying.[/quote]
got ya. as for that point, I agree. If they are good enough to compete, let them but if there are rules stating they can’t, the rules must be followed :)
Yes, of course rules are rules. My answer was from the perspective of “does it matter”…. I do agree that they need to follow the rules. I should have been more clear on what I was saying.
[quote comment="39599"]Some of those Chinese girls did look awfully young, but they very well could have been the right age and just have baby faces. I mean, they are so petite that it would tend to make them look younger.
However, in my opinion it doesn’t matter one bit to the competition. If you want a 12 yr old to represent your country in gymnastics and if she’s good enough to medal, who cares? That’s my take on it. If it were a doping issue it would be different, but I don’t see age as being any big deal.[/quote]
It wouldn’t be an issue if rules weren’t rules. rules state they must be 16 to compete.
Some of those Chinese girls did look awfully young, but they very well could have been the right age and just have baby faces. I mean, they are so petite that it would tend to make them look younger.
However, in my opinion it doesn’t matter one bit to the competition. If you want a 12 yr old to represent your country in gymnastics and if she’s good enough to medal, who cares? That’s my take on it. If it were a doping issue it would be different, but I don’t see age as being any big deal.
Just nine months before the Beijing Olympics, the Chinese government’s news agency, Xinhua, reported that gymnast He Kexin was 13, which would have made her ineligible to be on the team that won a gold medal last week.
In its report Nov. 3, Xinhua identified He as one of “10 big new stars” who made a splash at China’s Cities Games. It gave her age as 13 and reported that she beat Yang Yilin on the uneven bars at those games. In the final, “this little girl” pulled off a difficult release move on the bars known as the Li Na, named for another Chinese gymnast, Xinhua said in the report, which appeared on one of its Web sites, http://www.hb.xinhuanet.com
The Associated Press found the Xinhua report on the site last Thursday morning and saved a copy of the page. Later that afternoon, the Web site was still working but the page was no longer accessible. Sports editors at the state-run news agency would not comment for publication. hmmmm….
If the age reported by Xinhua was correct, that would have meant He was too young to be on the Chinese team that beat the United States on Wednesday and clinched China’s first women’s team Olympic gold in gymnastics. He was also a favorite for gold in Monday’s uneven bars final.
China’s response?”We already explained this very clearly. There’s no need to discuss this thing again.” Sounds pretty simple, right?
Regardless of whether the rules are fair or not they are the rules. And they should be followed by EVERYONE. PERIOD. Yes, China did win but if they blatantly disregarded a major Gymnastic qualification rule does that make their win as golden? The reasons for the age restrictions are obvious, I feel. They are to prevent younger girls from being abused and to make sure that the girls going into these extremely stressful and traumatic matches are mature enough to handle the emotions behind it. If China disregarded these rules I feel more for the girls because they’re welfare was not taken into account. And it just sets a bad example…win at all costs.
Yes indeed…